In article <aokdk6$l9$0@news.t-online.com, "Laura E. Czeschick"

<Laura.Czesch@t-online.dewrote:


<...

It would be helpful to look up the etymology of "kluch". Unfortunately I
have no Macedonian dictionary, so could you do that, please, and let us
know
what you found out?


Macedonian isn't necessary -- the etymon is spread throughout much of
Slavic (Pol. <klucz, Cz. <klĂ­c^, Ukr./Russ./Croat./Serb. <kljuc^).  
According to Vasmer (*Etymological dictionary of Russian*), it's related
to Greek <kleĂ­o:'I lock; I block (up)'; Latin <cla:vus'nail' and
<cla:vis'key', and <claudo:'I lock; I block (up)'.

He notes that Germanic roots with the Indo-European prefix *skl- belong
here as well, such as OHG <slioZan'to lock', <sluZZil'key'; and Old
Saxon <slutil'ibid.'

So you were right there!

Regards,
Keith

Keith G <verbiv@earthlink.netwrote :

Laura E. Czeschick wrote:
<...
| It would be helpful to look up the etymology of "kluch".


[...]

Macedonian isn't necessary -- the etymon is spread throughout much of
Slavic (Pol. <klucz, Cz. <klĂ­c^, Ukr./Russ./Croat./Serb. <kljuc^).  
According to Vasmer (*Etymological dictionary of Russian*), it's related
to Greek <kleĂ­o:'I lock; I block (up)'; Latin <cla:vus'nail' and
<cla:vis'key', and <claudo:'I lock; I block (up)'.
He notes that Germanic roots with the Indo-European prefix *skl- belong
here as well, such as OHG <slioZan'to lock', <sluZZil'key'; and Old
Saxon <slutil'ibid.'


      And quite possibly all this is not true, since e.g. Russ.
      <kl'uc^has an obvious tie to <kl'uka'crooked stick, staff'
      and with <kl'ukva < *kljuky 'cranberry', so that the root
      can be interpreted as 'something bent, crooked'.
RR

So you were right there!

Regards,
Keith

On 17 Oct 2002 06:07:22 -0700, e@umail.umd.edu (ruffnready)
wrote:

Keith G <verbiv@earthlink.netwrote :
| Laura E. Czeschick wrote:
| <...
| It would be helpful to look up the etymology of "kluch".
[...]
| Macedonian isn't necessary -- the etymon is spread throughout much of
| Slavic (Pol. <klucz, Cz. <klĂ­c^, Ukr./Russ./Croat./Serb. <kljuc^).  
| According to Vasmer (*Etymological dictionary of Russian*), it's related
| to Greek <kleĂ­o:'I lock; I block (up)'; Latin <cla:vus'nail' and
| <cla:vis'key', and <claudo:'I lock; I block (up)'.
| He notes that Germanic roots with the Indo-European prefix *skl- belong
| here as well, such as OHG <slioZan'to lock', <sluZZil'key'; and Old
| Saxon <slutil'ibid.'
     And quite possibly all this is not true, since e.g. Russ.
     <kl'uc^has an obvious tie to <kl'uka'crooked stick, staff'
     and with <kl'ukva < *kljuky 'cranberry', so that the root
     can be interpreted as 'something bent, crooked'.


Which may still be consistent.  Watkins derives the Greek and
Latin words from PIE */kleH2u-/, which glosses 'Possibly hook,
peg'; <kl'ukawould seem to fit in fairly nicely.

Brian

Keith G <verbiv@earthlink.netwrote in message <news:verbivore-04787B.23554316102002@news.earthlink.net...
In article <aokdk6$l9$0@news.t-online.com, "Laura E. Czeschick"
<Laura.Czesch@t-online.dewrote:

<...

| It would be helpful to look up the etymology of "kluch". Unfortunately I
| have no Macedonian dictionary, so could you do that, please, and let us
| know
| what you found out?

Macedonian isn't necessary -- the etymon is spread throughout much of
Slavic (Pol. <klucz, Cz. <klĂ­c^, Ukr./Russ./Croat./Serb. <kljuc^).  
According to Vasmer (*Etymological dictionary of Russian*), it's related
to Greek <kleĂ­o:'I lock; I block (up)'; Latin <cla:vus'nail' and
<cla:vis'key', and <claudo:'I lock; I block (up)'.

He notes that Germanic roots with the Indo-European prefix *skl- belong
here as well, such as OHG <slioZan'to lock', <sluZZil'key'; and Old
Saxon <slutil'ibid.'

So you were right there!

Regards,
Keith


Well then Vasmer should take note that the modern Macedonian word
"kreio" means - to hide, stash away, taken from "krieno"-hidden, and
related to (what he appropriates as Greek) "Kleio" which in Macedonian
also means- place it, put it (there). Kleio is a Macedonian dialectic
variant of the word "kleigo"-place it, put it.
"Sluzhil" in Macedonian just means - a term of army service, "slushil"
means -to listen/hear.

It's all very interesting.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:43:50 +0100, Vilar wrote:
Nie tak (okrutnie w biegu, więc przepraszam za udział w dyskusji bardziej
przypominający rzucanie kamyków pod nogi)

tongue to tyle co ozór, mięsień.
a language - język (mówiony, ciała itd.)

I tym wlasnie tłumaczy sie "speak in tongues". Mowic ozorem - czyli jakby
bez udzialu mozgu.


Z Oxford English Dictionary, hasło "tongue":

8. a. The speech or language of a people or race; also, that of a
particular class or locality, a dialect.
b. the tongues , foreign languages; often spec. the classical or learned
languages; the three tongues, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.
c. The knowledge or use of a language. Esp. in phrases gift of tongues, to
speak with a tongue (tongues), in reference to the Pentecostal miracle and
the miraculous gift in the early Church; also simply tongues (pl. in
collect. sense).
9. transf. in biblical use: A people or nation having a language of their
own. Usually in plural: all tongues, people of every tongue.

| Andrzej Glazek wrote:
| Z tym "ujdzie po amerykańsku" to chyba niesprawdzony domysł. Oxford
English
| Dictionary (2. wyd.) zawiera 216 przykładów użycia "protect" (w
różnych
| formach) z "from" i 213 przykładów z "against". Na brytyjskich
stronach
| internetwowych (w domenie .uk) "from" jest częstsze niż "against".

| ...and protect us from evil...

| MB

And DELIVER us from evil, as the original English prayer goes!


It's not an English prayer, originally. The *traditional* English
*translation* of the Latin *translation* of the Greek *translation* of an
original Aramaic prayer indeed has "deliver". But here is more modern
translation:

You should pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Help us to honor your name.
Come and set up your kingdom,
So that everyone on earth will obey you, as you are obeyed in heaven.
Give us our food for today.
Forgive us for doing wrong,
As we forgive others.
Keep us from being tempted
And protect us from evil.

--Matthew 6:9-13

http://biblepacesetter.org/participatory/pamphlets/ipray.html

(...)

| Pseudonaukowcy? Hmm.Innego wyrtlumaczenia dla nazywania Jezusa z
Betlejem
| Nazarejczykiem, jak nie powiazanie z nazirejczykami (odlam essenczykow)
to
| ja raczej nie widze.

Inne wytlumaczenie to ze nazywano go od miasta Nazaret?


Powolam sie co prawda na dane z drugiej reki, czyli zacytuje za Kerstenem:
Wg Greek-Roman Dictionary of New Testament and Other Early Chriustian
Literature z 1965 roku znalezienie zwiazku miedzy slowami "nazarejczyk" a
Nazaret jest niemozliwe. W 1920 M.Lidzbarski dowodzil w Mandaic Liturgies ze
z powodow etymologicznych "nazarene" nie moze pochodzic od nazwy miasta.

 Marek


Boruta